Legendary drummer Zak Starkey has spoken to NME about his confusing sacking from The Who, being left out of reunited Oasis line-up, working with Noel Gallagher on the new Mantra Of The Cosmos single, and advice for Barry Keoghan playing his dad Ringo Starr in one of the four upcoming Beatles biopics. Watch our video interview above.
Earlier this month, Mantra Of The Cosmos – the already supergroup of Starkey alongside Ride and Oasis man Andy Bell with The Happy Mondays‘ Shaun Ryder and Bez – officially released the fan favourite ‘Domino Bones (Gets Dangerous)’, featuring Noel Gallagher. Can you get much more of an all-star line-up than that?
“Not really, unless it’s The Beatles,” replied Starkey, speaking to NME in London. “Noel sent the song to me, but I scrapped his music. I just played my electric drums through a boombox and recorded it on my phone to find parts to play with Shaun. I sped him up as well, by about 9BPM. I wrote new music, dropped Noel back in and he went, ‘This is the maddest thing I’ve ever heard’ – that’s a compliment.
“It’s a bit of hip-hop, a bit of rock, then at the end it’s like [Lynyrd Skynyrd’s] ‘Freebird’ for mods.”
Asked how the Oasis legend came to collab with Starkey on the track, the drummer replied “Noel sent me it about a year ago and said, ‘This might be better for your band than mine [High Flying Birds]’. It didn’t work for his band because of the hip-hop element because of Shaun.
“I took the music off and started from the ground up. At first, my version was hip-hop. We were gonna do Later… With Jools Holland and Noel went, ‘There’s only drums on this, what the fuck am I supposed to play?’ I wrote the music and it worked. It’s heavy, it’s mad, it’s crazy. Noel’s part is beautiful when it drops.”
It’s been an eventful time since work started on the song – with Starkey being sacked, re-hired and then officially “retired” from his role in The Who, Oasis reuniting without him and having Joey Waronker behind the kit, and Barry Keoghan being selected to play his old man Ringo Starr in Sam Mendes’ ambitious four Beatles biopics. Check out our interview below where he tells us about all of the above, along with plans for the future, advice for Oasis’ new sticksman and for Keoghan stepping into his father’s shoes.
Mantra of the Cosmos, photo by Andrzej Liguz/Neil Cooper
NME: Hello Zak. How are you getting on after all the drama with The Who?
Zak Starkey: “I’m very thankful for the support I’ve got. I didn’t particularly like what they were saying about Roger [Daltrey, frontman]. It was only one gig [at the Royal Albert Hall], it was only one fuck-up. At the end of the day, with technical problems and The Who, you see it all crash and we start it again. But on this particular occasion, I don’t know why, I dropped some beats apparently. I’ve fucking looked everywhere and I can’t find them!
“I’ve watched [footage] a couple of times and I can’t find them, but I got the sack.”
Are these things usually so abrupt?
“I don’t know – I’ve not been sacked before! Then I was back in again four days later. Nearly two weeks after that, I was sacked again.”
What happened in that interim period?
“Pete [Townshend, guitarist] said, ‘Are you strong enough to fight for your job back?’ I said, ‘Not if you’ve got to do it for me’. If it wasn’t for The Who, I wouldn’t be playing the drums. I was a guitarist first. And then he went, ‘Alright, let’s get you your job back’. Roger demanded a public apology and me admitting that I dropped two beats. So I did it, but with a duck playing drums – which is my character in the new Mantra Of The Cosmos video. Pete phoned me and he went, ‘Try that again without the duck’. I did it without the duck, got the gig back – 10 days later, sacked again. Roger said he couldn’t work with me no more after I’d done that.
“I still talk to Roger every week on the phone. I still text with Pete all the time. I spoke to Roger a few weeks ago and he said, ‘Don’t take your drums out of the warehouse just yet in case we need you’. What the fuck’s going on, man? That’s where we’re at now.
“The week before that he said, ‘We haven’t fired you – we’ve retired you because you’re so busy with your own group and other projects’. Half my group’s in Oasis, the other half is in Happy Mondays, so there’s me and a fucking rabbit out of the video. I went, ‘I’m free’, and he said, ‘Oh…’ We sort of leave it there, and then ‘don’t take your drums out of the warehouse in case we give you a call’. I said, ‘Hurry up, because I’ve written a letter to Bob Dylan!’”
Zak Starkey (L) and Roger Daltrey of The Who. CREDIT: Tim Mosenfelder/WireImage/Getty
Are you expecting a reply from Bob?
“No, but at least I tried. I know all his lyrics, I know all his tunes, and if he changes them up like he always does, I’ve got it because I’ve been following Pete Townshend for 30 years and he never plays the same thing twice.”
Has all of this coloured your experience and memories? Would you feel weird about going back to The Who if they asked?
“No. I just think, ‘It’s The Who’. The first time it sort of phased me a bit, and then the second time was a bit disappointing. They asked me to say that I’d left, and I didn’t leave so I wouldn’t do it. There was that not-very-clear Pete statement that he had to say because he’s in a group with Roger, and then I countered it by saying, ‘I’m not leaving, I have been sacked again’. That’s the truth and I’m not going to fucking lie – especially to all of the people who have supported me through all that shit. That would just be letting people down.”
While you were working on ‘Domino Bones’, did you know that Oasis were coming back together or was that all very hush-hush?
“We had this tune before that. Noel called me on my birthday to tell me I wasn’t in [Oasis]. He didn’t know it was my birthday though! I would like to be in it, because they’re my favourite group of my generation. The thing about groups that you love – like The Who or Oasis – is that it’s not a job. It’s about protecting music so that no c**t does it wrong, because for so many people it’s a job and they don’t really care.
“When it’s your favourite band, you pick up the phone and you’re like, ‘Fucking hell!’ It’s completely different to everything else. I fucking love Oasis. I always did. I always had this thing with Liam [Gallagher] for years from the mid-90s where I’d go, ‘Alright Daffers? Still the greatest rock’n’roll singer in the world?’ and he’d go, ‘Alright Zakky Wakky, still the greatest rock’n’roll drummer in the world?’ This went on for years until I was in [the band]. I couldn’t believe it.”
Zak Starkey with Oasis at the 2005 Q Awards (Photo by Mick Hutson/Redferns)
Did you feel like you were in the best band in the world at the time?
“It was the best live band by fucking miles. We went to America and we fucking destroyed it. Those boys never argued, they didn’t want to ruin it. We were just having a laugh and it was great rock’n’roll.”
What do you think of Joey Waronker being new drummer? Any advice for him?
“He’s not a mod is he? Don’t fuck it up. Make sure you get your tempos right, them boys know. They’re smart. They’re some of the smartest musicians I’ve ever met. Whether it’s fast, it’s slow, they’re bang on it.”
Do you think Oasis have got a new album in them or is it all about the shows?
“I don’t know. I thought Liam’s last album [‘C’Mon You Know’] was a work of modern art. That first tune ‘More Power’, I thought it was Yoko Ono! It was so out there. It was also great that he could leave his ego at the door to get a bit of help with it. That’s an album I’ll be listening for 10 years.”
How would you describe the chemistry between yourself, Bez, Shaun and Andy? What happens when you get into a room?
“We could be in a dressing room for 12 hours and we wouldn’t argue. That’s great. Andy’s been busy having a Number One album with Ride, so everything is me and Shaun in the studio, basically. My wife wrote our song ‘Gorilla’ too.”
MANTRA OF THE COSMOS. CREDIT: Press
What’s next for the Mantras?
“We’ve got another single lined up, with some new members passing through. It’s great, it’s better than this one – it’s a lot more political. It’s darker and not as daft: ‘MAGA ain’t gonna make you great again, and Mecca is gonna bomb ya/ billionaire’s are shaving heads and it ain’t for the love of Buddha’ – Shaun Ryder. He’s good, Shaun Ryder.”
Beyond that and waiting for a call from Bob Dylan, what else have you got coming up?
“If I say anything, Roger will say ‘You’re too busy!’ I’m going to have a wank and relax for a bit… No. I’m going to finish the Mantra stuff and mix it, most of it is done already. I have a record label called Trojan Jamaica, and I’m hoping to do a Trojan UK. Before Toots [Hibbert] of Toots & The Maytals died, I promised I’d finish his life’s work which was an album called ‘Toots Sings Otis’. Keith Richards has already played on ‘(I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction’ and he’s done it so well, it’s not going to take much work to finish it.”
We’ve got four Beatles biopics on the way. What do you make of Barry Keoghan playing Ringo and what’s your advice for him?
“Get a big rubber nose. I don’t know what else to say. He doesn’t look anything like my dad, does he? You can fix anything, can’t you? You can certainly give someone a big rubber nose. The thing about my dad is his personality. He sold The Beatles to America, he’s the one with the charisma. Pulling that off will be hard. He’s just himself.”
How do you think he’ll get on playing drums like your dad?
“That’s fucking impossible. Nobody can play like my dad. Good luck to him, but he’ll be the first guy who can pull it off. My dad’s unique – the greatest rock’n’roll drummer in the world, still. He’s better now than he was then.”
Mantra Of The Cosmos’ ‘Domino Bones’ is out now, with a new song ‘Rip Off’ – featuring fellow Beatles’ sons Sean Ono Lennon and James McCartney – coming soon.
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